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who should pick up the burden for deficit reduction? working people who have seen their wages go down or the top 2% who have done phenomenally well, while their effective tax rate, as mitt romney reminded us by not releasing his tax returns, is extremely low. so to my mind, what this deficit reduction debate is about is asking the wealthiest people, the large corporations to help us with deficit reduction and give a break for a change to the middle class and working families. >> as you say, one that would mean less money for seniors with the social security adjustment is off the table, are you more optimistic about getting a deal done. >> we still have a long way to go. >> what do you see as the major sticking point? >> one of the sticking pointing, what the republicans want to do is continue the 2010 agreement on lower estate tax rates, which means, chris, $120 billion tax break over a ten-year period for the top 0.2 of 1%. they get $120 billion tax break. and people come forward and say we're very serious about deficit reduction. thir
who should pick up the burden for deficit reduction? working people who have seen their wages go down or the top 2% who have done phenomenally well, while their effective tax rate, as mitt romney reminded us by not releasing his tax returns, is extremely low. so to my mind, what this deficit reduction debate is about is asking the wealthiest people, the large corporations to help us with deficit reduction and give a break for a change to the middle class and working families. >> as you...
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so to delay that has a cost that further adds to the deficit. so they have been trying to find ways to offset that cost. to bring in new revenue through these new taxes, to protect the current tax rates for the majority of americans. so anyone who earns less than 400,000 dollars as an individual will have the same tax rates as they do now. other sorts of tax provisions like the 2% payroll tax will stay in effect. and for those people who have been out of work the longest and have been depending on unemployment benefits, those will continue as a part of this deal. it is complicated. it has very significant impact on the economy, on people's pocketbooks, and there has been sharp political divide for a very long time. that's the subject of the campaign on many levels, it will be a subject of campaigns for many of these members of congress in the future when they are up for reelection. but this represents a significant breakthrough after so much difficulty. much of the credit will probably go to mitch mcconnell and vice president joe biden. and alon
so to delay that has a cost that further adds to the deficit. so they have been trying to find ways to offset that cost. to bring in new revenue through these new taxes, to protect the current tax rates for the majority of americans. so anyone who earns less than 400,000 dollars as an individual will have the same tax rates as they do now. other sorts of tax provisions like the 2% payroll tax will stay in effect. and for those people who have been out of work the longest and have been depending...
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don't forget who asked and demanded for deficit reduction. when i talked to a capitol hill staffer, here's what he said. he said -- this is very important -- "if it's a status quo election some kind of deal that staifz off sec quest rags. >> the republicans. >> i have to say it, it is the republicans that the point that are arguing against deficit reduction. they want to cancel the see quester, which is military spending cut. >> only on their terms. >> they would like spending cuts, but they would like -- they won't be ebbing mrift about exactly how do do it. >> i want to give luke the last word on this. >> is there a chance? just your kind of read on the final word on this, do we end today with some kind of a deal, or do they punt this and try to do it before january 3rd or not at all, just go over the cliff? >> i think that there's a possibility you could see a deal come out of the senate today, although i think if any deal comes out of the senate, the house will most likely vote on it tomorrow. i don't see a late night new year's eve vote
don't forget who asked and demanded for deficit reduction. when i talked to a capitol hill staffer, here's what he said. he said -- this is very important -- "if it's a status quo election some kind of deal that staifz off sec quest rags. >> the republicans. >> i have to say it, it is the republicans that the point that are arguing against deficit reduction. they want to cancel the see quester, which is military spending cut. >> only on their terms. >> they would...
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we still have deficits that have to be dealt with. we're still going to have to think about how we put our economy on a long-term trajectory of growth and how we continue to make investments in things like education, things like infrastructure that help our economy grow. keep in mind that the threat of tax hikes going up is only one part of this so-called fiscal cliff that everybody has been talking about. what we also have facing us starting tomorrow are automatic spending cuts that are scheduled to go into effect. keep in mind that some of these spending cuts that congress has said will automatically go into effect have an impact on our defense department, but they also have an impact on things like head start and so there are some programs that are scheduled to be cut that we're using an ax instead ax instead of a scalpel. may not always be the smartest cuts and so that is a piece of business that still has to be taken care of. and i want to make clear that any agreement we have to deal with these automatic spending cuts that are b
we still have deficits that have to be dealt with. we're still going to have to think about how we put our economy on a long-term trajectory of growth and how we continue to make investments in things like education, things like infrastructure that help our economy grow. keep in mind that the threat of tax hikes going up is only one part of this so-called fiscal cliff that everybody has been talking about. what we also have facing us starting tomorrow are automatic spending cuts that are...
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number one they don't like the extension of unemployment benefits and think that adds to the deficit. they don't think there are enough spending cuts. they also don't like the extension of the middle class tax cuts that were the president's stimulus package. also some liberals don't like the bill because they feel it gives, takes away their leverage to argue for more taxes in the future in terms of deficit deals and the rest of them would only come by cuts. so what you're going to see is at noon, nancy pelosi is going to talk to the house democratic caucus. there have been some rumors that joe biden could come up here on new year's day to sell the plan, very much like he did to the senate ds earlier this morning. you'll also see john boehner meeting with his conference at 1:00 p.m. i've been told by folks close to boehner that these -- it is by no means a done deal. he is keeping the door open to possibly amending the senate bill. now you think with the 9 votes they wouldn't want to do that, they'd want to put this to bed. but the house republicans have been known to scuttle these typ
number one they don't like the extension of unemployment benefits and think that adds to the deficit. they don't think there are enough spending cuts. they also don't like the extension of the middle class tax cuts that were the president's stimulus package. also some liberals don't like the bill because they feel it gives, takes away their leverage to argue for more taxes in the future in terms of deficit deals and the rest of them would only come by cuts. so what you're going to see is at...
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the deficit and the debt and that is happening today to put a patch on not going over the cliff. there has to be new revenues and some entitlement reform, and cpi is the most painless way to do it. and the president offered it in a deal as recently as a week or two ago, and spending cuts, but right now, it is not a grand bargain, because we have the debt ceiling hanging out in two months. this is an attempt to avoid political pain and going over the cliff and we can't get an agreement on a patch with less than 36 hours to go. >> and don, this is the problem, something is the going to hurt. we can't get out with no pain, and we have all sorts of things and nobody wants to pay for it, don. >> you two are fired up, too. and the people at home are too, right. >> and 516 days since we knew that the deadline would come. >> and right at the deadline, and they are going home. >> right. and we are not. >> we are not. we will be here until who knows. okay. a stalemate or breakthrough? with hours to go, lawmakers are searching for a compromise. what are the chances of reaching a deal in was
the deficit and the debt and that is happening today to put a patch on not going over the cliff. there has to be new revenues and some entitlement reform, and cpi is the most painless way to do it. and the president offered it in a deal as recently as a week or two ago, and spending cuts, but right now, it is not a grand bargain, because we have the debt ceiling hanging out in two months. this is an attempt to avoid political pain and going over the cliff and we can't get an agreement on a...
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that would help the federal government in terms of dealing with the deficit, but nonetheless, it still won't be enough, but it will be a start in that direction. that's the current cutoff, but we don't have that deal yet. absent that deal and as long as the clock keeps ticking, all of this is on the table for all of us. one more thing i should mention, bear in mind this past year, all of us have enjoyed a payroll tax vacation. payroll taxes were reduced across the country to help people deal with this bad economy right now. that's ending. there's no sign that's not going to end. everyone is going to pay a little more anyway. what we're worried about is this extra level on top. that is what many volters are paying attention to and that is the real bear in the woods that has democrats and republicans both worried about these negotiations. >> the clock, as you point out, is ticking, ticking, ticking right now. tom, thank you. >>> what's at stake for the millions of americans already out of a job once the country goes over the fiscal cliff? that and much more when our special coverage cont
that would help the federal government in terms of dealing with the deficit, but nonetheless, it still won't be enough, but it will be a start in that direction. that's the current cutoff, but we don't have that deal yet. absent that deal and as long as the clock keeps ticking, all of this is on the table for all of us. one more thing i should mention, bear in mind this past year, all of us have enjoyed a payroll tax vacation. payroll taxes were reduced across the country to help people deal...
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that solves our deficit problems in a balanced and responsible way. with this congress, that was obviously a little bit too much to hope for at this time. it may be we can do it in stages. >> there are a number of issues on which the two sides are still apart but negotiations are continuing as i speak. but we really are running out of time. >> the vice president and i have worked together on solutions before and i believe we can again. >> no holiday for the best political team around. a triple threat, luke russert and mike viqueira on the capitol hill and kristen welker from the white house. are you happy to be working on the holiday? >> it's fantastic. >> absolutely. >> sounded believable. viq, let's start with you. we have news trickling out today. working, trying to make a deal. what's going on? >> it's washington, d.c. nothing is as it appears. we6 classic kabuki theater going on here, toree. the president, jovial, said they were close to a deal. that joe biden, the negotiations with mitch mcconnell essentially borne fruit. republicans annoyed wit
that solves our deficit problems in a balanced and responsible way. with this congress, that was obviously a little bit too much to hope for at this time. it may be we can do it in stages. >> there are a number of issues on which the two sides are still apart but negotiations are continuing as i speak. but we really are running out of time. >> the vice president and i have worked together on solutions before and i believe we can again. >> no holiday for the best political team...
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we need to reduce the deficit. we know we need to reduce spending. any deal in the future that is the rest of this deal and brings it to completion is going to need to have both revenue and spending cuts and we're going to need to make sure that we add entitlement savings. we have that opportunity. the republicans just need to continue to get more of their members to agree to say yes. >> all right. congresswoman debby wassermann schultz, thanks so much for your time. >> thank you, mara. >> so who won, who lost? who compromised and who held firm? where does this leave embattled house speaker john boehner? reed wilson is editor-in-chief for national journal's hotline. thank you both for being here today. ryan, let's talk about what we'll see in the house. do you expect a full scale revolt from conservative members who vowed to vote against any tax increase? >> well, i don't know. we'll find out early this afternoon. what i'm hearing is that the conservative members have three major problems with the bill that came over from the senate. one is that ther
we need to reduce the deficit. we know we need to reduce spending. any deal in the future that is the rest of this deal and brings it to completion is going to need to have both revenue and spending cuts and we're going to need to make sure that we add entitlement savings. we have that opportunity. the republicans just need to continue to get more of their members to agree to say yes. >> all right. congresswoman debby wassermann schultz, thanks so much for your time. >> thank you,...
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and really, is not interested in a balanced approach to deficit reduction. it's been pretty clear that that's the story we have been telling and it happens to be the truth. >> i understand that two of colleagues proposed cuts to medicare for a hike in the debt ceiling. what do you make of that offer? >> i think one of the things that people don't realize is that it's a dirty little secret. the republicans don't want to cut the things that americans want cut. and they want to cut things that americans don't want cut. poll after poll shown americans do not want deficit reduction done by cutting medicare and medicare and social security. so they propose and saw the same scenario when paul ryan put the budget out and because the american people rejected the kind of draconian cuts that the republicans want to make so, you know, that's a nonstarter in the senate. i think it's a nonstarter with the president. sure can pass the house but going nowhere past that. >> the smaller offer we hear that the president is making at 3:00, to congressional leadership, what kind
and really, is not interested in a balanced approach to deficit reduction. it's been pretty clear that that's the story we have been telling and it happens to be the truth. >> i understand that two of colleagues proposed cuts to medicare for a hike in the debt ceiling. what do you make of that offer? >> i think one of the things that people don't realize is that it's a dirty little secret. the republicans don't want to cut the things that americans want cut. and they want to cut...
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republicans would like to see more deficit reduction. so, they're saying if there are new taxes, spend it down on the deficit, don't use it for spending. chris? >> now, kelly, one other quick question. you've been up there probably for the last 96 hours, maybe more straight. what's the mood? i know we've got this report that mcconnell and joe biden worked late into the evening and that there seems to be a little bit more positivity than maybe when people like me went to bed last night, a little early. so, is the mood moving in the direction of a deal? is that what -- because it seemed like pessimism sort of toward the late afternoon yesterday. where are we right now, quickly? >> reporter: it does fluctuate. there is exasperation and frustration, especially from members here waiting to vote on something but have nothing to look at. they are wanting to see something done. the people closest to it tell us they are still working at it, that they see there isn't one particular issue that would make this all fall apart, but they're not there y
republicans would like to see more deficit reduction. so, they're saying if there are new taxes, spend it down on the deficit, don't use it for spending. chris? >> now, kelly, one other quick question. you've been up there probably for the last 96 hours, maybe more straight. what's the mood? i know we've got this report that mcconnell and joe biden worked late into the evening and that there seems to be a little bit more positivity than maybe when people like me went to bed last night, a...
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the deficit is going to swamp the economy. and at that point you're going to have the debt crisis, and you're going to need a whole new stream of revenues. the only thing that paul krugman and paul ryan agree on, only a value added tax will solve this problem. by raising marginal tax rates to get us out of this potential crisis. so we need very, very steep spending cuts, all of the emphasis and debate has been over marginal tax rates which are really a minor part of the solution, no matter what political strife you happen to be. have you to realize that tremendous spending cuts are necessary and already -- any changes to social security have been ruled out in a short term solution, and it's going to be very difficult. the congressmen from oklahoma were correct. that it's going to be hand to hand combat in the next session in order to get any kind of cuts. no one is talking about major cuts. >> sean -- >> except some on the republican side. >> i hear what you're saying, it sounds like, you know, i've read that this fiscal cliff
the deficit is going to swamp the economy. and at that point you're going to have the debt crisis, and you're going to need a whole new stream of revenues. the only thing that paul krugman and paul ryan agree on, only a value added tax will solve this problem. by raising marginal tax rates to get us out of this potential crisis. so we need very, very steep spending cuts, all of the emphasis and debate has been over marginal tax rates which are really a minor part of the solution, no matter what...
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we have a $1.3 trillion deficit for 2012. it will be about a trillion for 2013. we're borrowing 35 cents on the dollar. the enormous problem is interest rates are way below normal, so when they spike, which they inevitably will, and the government is borrowing very short term to keep its costs down, the deficit is going to swamp the economy. and at that point you're going to have the debt crisis, and you're going to need a whole new stream of revenues. the only thing that paul krugman and paul ryan agree on, in a crisis situation, only a value-added tax will solve this problem. by raising marginal tax rates to get us out of this potential crisis. so we need very, very steep spending cuts, all of the emphasis and debate has been over marginal tax rates which are really a minor part of the solution, no matter what political strife you happen to be. you have to realize that tremendous spending cuts are necessary and already the -- any changes to social security have been ruled out in a short-term solution and it's going to be very difficult, congressman from oklahom
we have a $1.3 trillion deficit for 2012. it will be about a trillion for 2013. we're borrowing 35 cents on the dollar. the enormous problem is interest rates are way below normal, so when they spike, which they inevitably will, and the government is borrowing very short term to keep its costs down, the deficit is going to swamp the economy. and at that point you're going to have the debt crisis, and you're going to need a whole new stream of revenues. the only thing that paul krugman and paul...
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if republicans think i will finish the job of deficit reduction, that's not how it's going to work. in the responsible way. they will reiterate that. it has to be balanced. >> there's a lot of criticism for how the president has been handling this in the last two days some republicans are ridiculing republicans and suggesting that was not conducive to negotiations. can you understand why people feel that way? >> i don't understand that. i think they are wrong. the president laid down the marker and indicated what was in it this bill. he also indicated what's ahead e. and he acknowledged that we have work to do ahead. it has to be done in a balanced and responsible way. there will be to be additional measures. i think that's important. we think the president will lead to think he's spiking the football when he's trying to get everything moving. i think that's a mistake for the republicans to say that. >> i'm not going to suggest that you know what the other 434 members of your house is going to do. never until the vote is done. vice president biden just said that yesterday. but i wan
if republicans think i will finish the job of deficit reduction, that's not how it's going to work. in the responsible way. they will reiterate that. it has to be balanced. >> there's a lot of criticism for how the president has been handling this in the last two days some republicans are ridiculing republicans and suggesting that was not conducive to negotiations. can you understand why people feel that way? >> i don't understand that. i think they are wrong. the president laid...
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that has to be part of the discussion down the road, whether it's with respect to deficit in a few month or sequestration or other things, the department of service is another thing. a lot of neocon friends on the right think it's psycho. but the reality, everything has to be on the table if we're honest with the american people about getting our fiscal house in order. they need to know the american people, exactly what the costs are, the consequences are, the priorities are quite frankly, milissa. we need to find a balance between guns and brothers or will we live in an absolutist world where you can't have one without the other? i think that will be part of the sequestration as well. >> the heritage foundation came out and said -- basically gave it a huge thumbs down. how does this affect republicans who vote for it? is that something they carry with them in deciding this? >> i think it will be. i think with the change occurring with leadership and the fact that they are talking about scoring members, republican members on how they vote on matters going forward, yeah, i think some will
that has to be part of the discussion down the road, whether it's with respect to deficit in a few month or sequestration or other things, the department of service is another thing. a lot of neocon friends on the right think it's psycho. but the reality, everything has to be on the table if we're honest with the american people about getting our fiscal house in order. they need to know the american people, exactly what the costs are, the consequences are, the priorities are quite frankly,...
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future negotiations and likely future fights about how to deal with paying for a way to bring down the deficit by other kinds of cuts. that's been at the heart of this fight. now, today the house of representatives comes in, they cast a vote, and because the senate vote is so overwhelmingly bipartisan, 89-8, it's hoped that that will have influence in the house to at least get this deal done now with a chance to talk about some of these issues some more in the new congress and in the months ahead. chris? >> kelly o'donnell, thank you. well, all eyes do now turn to the republican-controlled house and speaker john boehner. about two hours before the senate voted, the house leadership said it would take a wait-and-see approach. "decisions about whether the house will seek to accept or promptly amend the measure will not be made until house members and the american people have been able to review the legislation." with me now, "the washington post's" david machimura and steve toma, chief political correspondent for "mclatchy" newspapers. good morning. >> good morning. >> happy new year. >> happy n
future negotiations and likely future fights about how to deal with paying for a way to bring down the deficit by other kinds of cuts. that's been at the heart of this fight. now, today the house of representatives comes in, they cast a vote, and because the senate vote is so overwhelmingly bipartisan, 89-8, it's hoped that that will have influence in the house to at least get this deal done now with a chance to talk about some of these issues some more in the new congress and in the months...
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maybe there's a chance to get our deficit and debt in line. the downside, we're going to be playing with fire again walking right up by the edge of the cliff. >> the tax rate and how much you tax, that was actually never really a grand bargain kind of discussion. that was oh, guys, you say 3, we say 4, whatever. the real challenge is all of the low hanging fruit for cutting spending is gone. you know, mitt romney talked about big bird and pbs during the debate and people laughed. it wasn't that laughable. it's one of the bigger things left you can cut. you can cut amtrak. there aren't a lot of things that are billions of dollars in the budget you can cut. you need to cut things that hurt, that people care about. >> the deal with the sequester cuts was half out of defense, half out of discretionary spending. that's where entitlement reform stands. there are ways to cut what the president calls accurately bending the long term cost curve. you're not cutting costs in a way that can reduce economic growth immediately, but you reduce the long term
maybe there's a chance to get our deficit and debt in line. the downside, we're going to be playing with fire again walking right up by the edge of the cliff. >> the tax rate and how much you tax, that was actually never really a grand bargain kind of discussion. that was oh, guys, you say 3, we say 4, whatever. the real challenge is all of the low hanging fruit for cutting spending is gone. you know, mitt romney talked about big bird and pbs during the debate and people laughed. it...
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this time bomb that the congress created was designed to deal with deficit and the debt. we won't get that right now. but we might get a plan to deal with taxes, to avoid the fiscal cliff, that's a win for the economy and the american people. >> john, it is joe johns in washington, d.c. we have heard so much about tax increases and how they're going to handle those and not so much about the spending cuts and my question to you is at the end of the day, are we going to end up essentially with some type of a plan that could add to the federal deficit instead of reduce it? >> you noticed that, huh? sequester hasn't really been the topic of much conversation. look, that is still unclear right now. obviously, again, the point of all of this, the reason that over 500 days ago we set the fiscal cliff with regard to the spending cuts and knew the bush tax cuts were expiring ten years ago on this date, that was an impetus to create bargain to deal with deficit and debt. what seems to be coming together now is largely, as you said, a planned focused on taxes. not just the tough tax
this time bomb that the congress created was designed to deal with deficit and the debt. we won't get that right now. but we might get a plan to deal with taxes, to avoid the fiscal cliff, that's a win for the economy and the american people. >> john, it is joe johns in washington, d.c. we have heard so much about tax increases and how they're going to handle those and not so much about the spending cuts and my question to you is at the end of the day, are we going to end up essentially...
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had to be a paydown on $24 billion of the deficit. we'll have two months to argue out the debt ceiling and the sequester. that was a bright line the president laid out to vice president biden and the staff, said that had to be in the deal, or no deal. >> might be too early, too soon, any read out, any sense of how the meeting's gone between the vice president and the house democrats or we're still working on that? >> reporter: i am not getting any -- any read-out yet because i think it's ongoing. but i will tell you that there is -- even going into it -- a sense of optimism here. the staffers who were working well past 2:00 a.m. last night still have not booked their vacation -- well, they have not left on vacation but i think they're approaching the point where they might feel comfortable booking their vacation travel for a few days. you get the sense they think this is going to wrap up. >> strange how we get our information. we have to look at people's travel and vacation plans. but, yes, it could give us an inkling we're getting cl
had to be a paydown on $24 billion of the deficit. we'll have two months to argue out the debt ceiling and the sequester. that was a bright line the president laid out to vice president biden and the staff, said that had to be in the deal, or no deal. >> might be too early, too soon, any read out, any sense of how the meeting's gone between the vice president and the house democrats or we're still working on that? >> reporter: i am not getting any -- any read-out yet because i think...
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. >> if republicans think that i will finish the job of deficit reduction through spending cuts alone, and you hear that sometimes coming from them, sort of after today we're just going to try to shove only spending cuts down -- well, shove spending -- [ laughter ] shove spending cuts at us. if they think that's the formula for how we're going to solve this thing, then they've got another thing coming. >> i wanted to bring in democratic congressman john larson of connecticut with us from capitol hill. thanks for coming in. >> happy to be here. >> i want to talk spending in a moment but, first, what's your reaction to the parameters of a tax deal, a hike on incomes more than $400,000 for individuals, $450,000 for couples. your tlauts houghts on what we o far. >> we really don't know that much. we haven't seen anything in the house of representatives. i just heard luke russert say, you know, the ink isn't dry on any agreement yet. so while we're hopeful that there is an agreement that can be reached and have been prodding our colleagues to do so, things could implode rather easily, as w
. >> if republicans think that i will finish the job of deficit reduction through spending cuts alone, and you hear that sometimes coming from them, sort of after today we're just going to try to shove only spending cuts down -- well, shove spending -- [ laughter ] shove spending cuts at us. if they think that's the formula for how we're going to solve this thing, then they've got another thing coming. >> i wanted to bring in democratic congressman john larson of connecticut with us...
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over that i think some of the people who are making more than that can help address the deficit and the debt problem that confronts our country. obviously a necessity put this country on a path. if we're going to do that, everybody has to make a contribution toward that. those who have the most need to make their contributions. so the math has got to work. we're not really dealing with the math at this point in time. we're dealing simply with what are the realities of the ability to get to an agreement and create consensus, which is going to be essential if we don't go over the cliff at midnight tonight. so clearly the administration has been working very hard. i think others have been working hard. hopefully we'll get there. >> i know you're measuring this in hours. in fact, as my colleague points out, 517 days ago is when this was wrought by the bodies trying to fix it. on the senate side, tom harkin made it clear they may try to block that vote over the thing you're talking about. i want to listen to what he said on the floor just moments ago. >> if we're going to have some kind of a
over that i think some of the people who are making more than that can help address the deficit and the debt problem that confronts our country. obviously a necessity put this country on a path. if we're going to do that, everybody has to make a contribution toward that. those who have the most need to make their contributions. so the math has got to work. we're not really dealing with the math at this point in time. we're dealing simply with what are the realities of the ability to get to an...
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we'll be increasing the deficit. it is just, i think, hard to step back and take in the totality of congressional failure around this issue. >> well, let's talk about what exactly is likely to happen or is the threat of what will happen. talk about the pentagon. talk about federal workers. talk about obviously the unemploy unemployed whose benefits are going away. >> absolutely. the biggest -- the most dangerous thing, the fiscal cliff is the unemployment insurance. if we go over for a month we can sort of trick everything else. we can -- the irs can do some tricks to make it so you don't feel tax increases quickly. we can do tricks to make it so we don't lay off people at pentagon, we can furlough them. there's no trick with unemployment insurance. if we go over the cliff and don't do anything by unemployment insurance, 2 million people, hardest hit by the recession, will lose their unemployment insurance. that's number one. we're going to have the payroll tax cut expire, that's probably going to happen if we do rea
we'll be increasing the deficit. it is just, i think, hard to step back and take in the totality of congressional failure around this issue. >> well, let's talk about what exactly is likely to happen or is the threat of what will happen. talk about the pentagon. talk about federal workers. talk about obviously the unemploy unemployed whose benefits are going away. >> absolutely. the biggest -- the most dangerous thing, the fiscal cliff is the unemployment insurance. if we go over...
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you need also to have less deficit on the part of government and transfer it to the states. more decentralized decision making. why? because if you do you have decentralized errors. not one error dragging you down and last decade two errors in the down. iraq war. you know? it was a horror from human side. but it cost between 40 and 120 times the original estimates. you don't want mistake that is are very large. a fragile system is one in which mistakes are costly and the benefits are small and anti-fragile system is one in which mistakes are small and bring long-term benefits. we want to be in that environment and environment that ben filths of mistakes. >> i hear what you're saying. shifting the debt burden from the federal government and states and federal government is a better position to carry debt. states have these constitutional balance budget amendments and bail out the states, isn't it? >> this is exactly the problem we have is that the government finds it easy to borrow and runaway deficit. let me explain the big thing. a project in the uk where we have good data,
you need also to have less deficit on the part of government and transfer it to the states. more decentralized decision making. why? because if you do you have decentralized errors. not one error dragging you down and last decade two errors in the down. iraq war. you know? it was a horror from human side. but it cost between 40 and 120 times the original estimates. you don't want mistake that is are very large. a fragile system is one in which mistakes are costly and the benefits are small and...
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it ought to be about reducing the deficit and the debt, and what they are essentially suggesting is we want new taxes. we want higher taxes on people in this country to pay for new spending. >> so what happens next? with us nbc news capitol hill correspondent mike vic rah and nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. mike, let's get started with you. what's happening right now in the senate. i understand there's an update on the chained cpi. >> reporter: they say the darkest hour right before the dawn, melissa. everybody ought to hope that's true, at least if you don't want to see your taxes go up on midnight on monday and tuesday night because everything seems to be at a standstill right now. let's review the bidding. here it is from a republican source here on the republican side of capitol hill. all day yesterday they were trading proposals back and forth. by his count two democratic offers came back to republicans and four came back from republicans to democrats. the last one being at 7:00 last night, and, boom, after that, things pretty much came to a standsti standstill.
it ought to be about reducing the deficit and the debt, and what they are essentially suggesting is we want new taxes. we want higher taxes on people in this country to pay for new spending. >> so what happens next? with us nbc news capitol hill correspondent mike vic rah and nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. mike, let's get started with you. what's happening right now in the senate. i understand there's an update on the chained cpi. >> reporter: they say the...
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paul ryan, the big deficit guy, or so he says, he was on the simpson-bowles commission, and he voted against it, as did every other house republican on the commission. the white house saw no reason to embrace something that raised taxes so sky high and so the white house brought out something that was frankly to the right of simpson-bowles. their budget was to its right and they thought it had a better chance of passing. they thought it was a compromise. but the house republicans did not respond the same way. when they brought out the ryan budget, which was their budget alternative, they didn't compromise. they went way to the right. there was no compromise in it at all. that is fact number one. number two, in 2010 republicans won the midterm election. 2011 the white house agreed to a deal that was all spending cuts. it is the budget control act. it cuts spending by $1.8 trillion over the next decade. except for an increase in pell grants, the bill is all cuts, no taxes. and democrats agree to that. they agreed. that is fact number two. fact number three. at this point even after win
paul ryan, the big deficit guy, or so he says, he was on the simpson-bowles commission, and he voted against it, as did every other house republican on the commission. the white house saw no reason to embrace something that raised taxes so sky high and so the white house brought out something that was frankly to the right of simpson-bowles. their budget was to its right and they thought it had a better chance of passing. they thought it was a compromise. but the house republicans did not...
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the argument here all trying to come down to deal with the long-term deficit. so any move that in effect adds to the deficit really undoes all of the work they're at. so it's an unusual night. there are pizza boxes around there are people who aren't normally here there are at least a handful of senators who are celebrating anniversaries that i've spoke to either tonight or tomorrow with spouses who are near or far. so it's an unusual atmosphere. it is still possible they say to get some kind of an immigrant on the senate side tonight. that's why they're staying late. the house has gone home. so in effect, the cliff going over is inevitable. but as you heard senator coburn mentioned, it could be retroactively dilt dealt with over the next few days. and they don't want to lose the moment they believe they now have. even vice president biden might come over if they're close to a deal. more narrow issues are still dividing them. they've maid a lot of progress. they're just not there yet. milissa? >> i'm glad you just described that to us all about the mood in the s
the argument here all trying to come down to deal with the long-term deficit. so any move that in effect adds to the deficit really undoes all of the work they're at. so it's an unusual night. there are pizza boxes around there are people who aren't normally here there are at least a handful of senators who are celebrating anniversaries that i've spoke to either tonight or tomorrow with spouses who are near or far. so it's an unusual atmosphere. it is still possible they say to get some kind of...
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this is a plan that is not really enough to achieve the kind of fiscal sustainability in our deficit that -- one might have hoped out of a deal like this. this deal also does nothing about the debt ceiling. so unfortunately, we'll be back in a few months about another deal. on new year's eve, let's kind of put that aside for now. >> well, see you in a couple of months then, economist jared bernstein, thank you so much, happy new years to you. you are watching "msnbc," the place for politics. >>> welcome back to our breaking news coverage of the fiscal cliff deal from capitol hill. lawmakers in the white house have reached a tentative deal the avert the across-the-board tax increases, and huge spending cuts regarding the sequester. joining us is the host of "politics nation," the reverend al sharpton. thank you for taking time out of your new year's eve. and i'm sure that this is a subject of great interest to you. >> no, it is a very much -- of a concern to me. and one of the things that i'm very happy about if this deal is voted in, is that people that are depending on unemployment
this is a plan that is not really enough to achieve the kind of fiscal sustainability in our deficit that -- one might have hoped out of a deal like this. this deal also does nothing about the debt ceiling. so unfortunately, we'll be back in a few months about another deal. on new year's eve, let's kind of put that aside for now. >> well, see you in a couple of months then, economist jared bernstein, thank you so much, happy new years to you. you are watching "msnbc," the place...
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they know that we've got to make a down payment on deficit reduction. they know that we've got to protect the middle class and we've got to focus on -- let's -- what i haven't heard about in a couple of days are, our needs get back to the number one issues. creating jobs and getting this economy turned around. this is one of the first things that we have to do so we can move on aggressively towards that. >> bottom line, house republicans are meeting right now. they've just started a second meeting of the day. what do you anticipate will happen tonight? >> you know, i said earlier today, predicting what this group of republican and the house members will do is it certainly a challenge. i know that if -- from working with them as many years as i have, i know there are enough responsible republicans that there would be enough democrats and republicans that would pass that bill and send it to the president so we can prevent 98% of americans from having their tacks increased and we could get a handle on the deficit reduction problem. >> you think there's a d
they know that we've got to make a down payment on deficit reduction. they know that we've got to protect the middle class and we've got to focus on -- let's -- what i haven't heard about in a couple of days are, our needs get back to the number one issues. creating jobs and getting this economy turned around. this is one of the first things that we have to do so we can move on aggressively towards that. >> bottom line, house republicans are meeting right now. they've just started a...
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to do everything we can to prevent higher income individuals to pay a little bit more to reduce our deficit, and that's what's been going on for the last six months. that's what the conversation in the election was all about, but here we are. >> can you walk us through this? you said the chain cpi. i was told it was off the table. is it still on the table? >> earlier today i would have said the odds of an agreement was very low because mitch mcconnell, the republican leader, had put that into the talks. that apparently is no longer part of it. >> walk us through this, what's happening right now. are we at 250 or 400? what are we doing with unemployment? what's going on? >> well, again, there's -- no one has agreed to any particular threshold, whether it's 250, whether it's 400. unemployment insurance is something that is the an absolute requirement. the president has said and i totally agree that it's important that folks who are out of work through no fault of their own continue to get help. it's not just good for their families but the whole neighborhood and the local economy. one of the
to do everything we can to prevent higher income individuals to pay a little bit more to reduce our deficit, and that's what's been going on for the last six months. that's what the conversation in the election was all about, but here we are. >> can you walk us through this? you said the chain cpi. i was told it was off the table. is it still on the table? >> earlier today i would have said the odds of an agreement was very low because mitch mcconnell, the republican leader, had put...
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and the way they agreed to it is they paid down $24 billion on the deficit. remember, congress agreed to these major spending cuts, right? >> that's two months down the road, so even that is kind of a little bit anti-climactic. it is like, my god, the fiscal cliff, the fiscal cliff. we'll deal with it in two months. jessica yellin, so much more to talk to you about. we'll check in later, but thanks so much. >>> as we wait for republicans and democrats to come to the microphones, one democrat just left the meeting, he's going to be joining us next. sten to thesy progressive customers. i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. with snapshot, i knew what i could save before i switched to progressive. the better i drive, the more i save. i wish our company had something this cool. you're not filming this, are you? aw! camera shy. snapshot from progressive. test-drive snapshot before you switch. visit progressive.com today. to volunteer to help those in need. when a twinge of back pain surprises him. morning starts in high spirit
and the way they agreed to it is they paid down $24 billion on the deficit. remember, congress agreed to these major spending cuts, right? >> that's two months down the road, so even that is kind of a little bit anti-climactic. it is like, my god, the fiscal cliff, the fiscal cliff. we'll deal with it in two months. jessica yellin, so much more to talk to you about. we'll check in later, but thanks so much. >>> as we wait for republicans and democrats to come to the microphones,...
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i mean, offered to make some significant changes to our entitlement programs in order to reduce the deficit. >> all right. we're just listening to a democrat, tom harkin, criticizing the deal so far. the question -- we're speaking specifically of the concessions, perhaps the $450,000 offer we're aware of coming from vice president biden. are the president and democrats caving too much? tom harkin is expressing that frustration. >> well, i think we're all frustrated about that. i think the american people, 60% to 70% of the american people believe the president was correct in setting the limits at 250 and 200,000 for individuals as the cap on making sure that those taxes didn't go up for those americans making less than that. 70% of americans think that's about right. they voted in the presidential election and re-elected a president who said that was his criteria. but the president understands this is a process where compromise is necessary. the house of representatives, controlled by the republicans, clearly has indicated that a million dollars was not acceptable to it in the united states
i mean, offered to make some significant changes to our entitlement programs in order to reduce the deficit. >> all right. we're just listening to a democrat, tom harkin, criticizing the deal so far. the question -- we're speaking specifically of the concessions, perhaps the $450,000 offer we're aware of coming from vice president biden. are the president and democrats caving too much? tom harkin is expressing that frustration. >> well, i think we're all frustrated about that. i...
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climate change, gay marriage, abortion, all of that was ignored and we talked about simpson bowls and the deficit reduction. >> around no explanation of what those things were for the average person. >> inside the beltway debate. you only get really one domestic policy debate now for the entire fall campaign. open this thing up to new voices, to fresh perspective, to broader perspectives. i don't mean to pick on jim layla leyer but enough. >> the obama campaign and the not surprising decision of mitt romney and debate moderators to never raise climate change for the first time since 1988. if you go back to the tape in 1988 where dan quayle was asked about the fact carbon was warming the earth, yeah, that's going to be a problem, we should do something about it. here we are 24 years later and it doesn't even get a mention in any of the debates. >> i have another video assist from my answer here. the worst move, the worst decision of the campaign was to do what you're about to see at the republican convention. >> oh. >> i just wondered, are all these promises and then i wondered about, you know, wh
climate change, gay marriage, abortion, all of that was ignored and we talked about simpson bowls and the deficit reduction. >> around no explanation of what those things were for the average person. >> inside the beltway debate. you only get really one domestic policy debate now for the entire fall campaign. open this thing up to new voices, to fresh perspective, to broader perspectives. i don't mean to pick on jim layla leyer but enough. >> the obama campaign and the not...
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we talked about simpson-bowles, deficit reduction, and affordable care act. >> with no explanation of what they were for the average person. >> it was sort of the inside the beltway debate, and you get one positive debate for the entire fall campaign. you open things up to new voices to broader perspectives. i don't mean to pick on jim lehrer too much, but really, enough of it. >> chris, the worst move? >> the worst move, the decision by both the obama campaign and the not so surprising decision on never raising climate change for the first time. since 1988, if you go back to the tape when lloyd benson, they both said yeah, that will be a problem, we should do something about it. here we are, 24 years later and it doesn't even get a mention in any of the debates. >> i have another video assist, the worst move, the worst decision of the campaign was to do what you're about to see. at the republican convention. >> oh. >> i just wondered -- all of these promises, and then i wondered about -- you know, when -- the -- what do you want me to tell romney? i can't tell him to do that. can't d
we talked about simpson-bowles, deficit reduction, and affordable care act. >> with no explanation of what they were for the average person. >> it was sort of the inside the beltway debate, and you get one positive debate for the entire fall campaign. you open things up to new voices to broader perspectives. i don't mean to pick on jim lehrer too much, but really, enough of it. >> chris, the worst move? >> the worst move, the decision by both the obama campaign and the...
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it is not right now a budget deficit problem. in fact, right now the government ought to be spending more in terms of getting people employed and investing in infrastructure and education. >> they are in recess until noon tomorrow. january 1st. then they will come back. we do expect according to dana bash our correspondent there, there will be a vote in the senate on the senate floor some time tonight. looking ahead to tomorrow, what advice do you have for republican house members who will consider -- assuming it passes the senate tonight -- what's your advice for them tomorrow? >> this is the beginning of the game. take the 84% of your winnings off the table. we spent 12 years getting the democrats to seed those tax cuts to the american people. take them off the table. then we go back and argue about making the tax cuts permanent for everyone. and we engage in a four-year, three yards and a cloud of dust fight to cut spending every day using the tools of the debt ceiling power and the fact that they have to come and ask the hous
it is not right now a budget deficit problem. in fact, right now the government ought to be spending more in terms of getting people employed and investing in infrastructure and education. >> they are in recess until noon tomorrow. january 1st. then they will come back. we do expect according to dana bash our correspondent there, there will be a vote in the senate on the senate floor some time tonight. looking ahead to tomorrow, what advice do you have for republican house members who...
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it's deficits that got us into this problem. it's only reducing the deficit that's will get us out of this problem. >> the key there is it's my best belief that they've reached an agreement on revenues, that means on this issue of raising taxes on the wealthiest americans. this is still a fight over tax rates for wealthy americans at this point. not sure what else is on the table. doctors, see a 27% cut on the pay they get for medicare services, that's a problem. amt. there's a whole host of people that are going to get hit if they don't fix this. >> that's tough all around for everybody. the fact he's saying it's somewhat optimistic is surprising to me. i haven't heard that much optimism, but we'll see how it goes. christine, thank you. we appreciate it. the outlook on wall street might be a little gloomy when the opening bell rings later this hour. but investors elsewhere around the world, they're actually holding steady. britain's ftse index and hong kong's hang seng index spent most of the morning down but only slightly. jap
it's deficits that got us into this problem. it's only reducing the deficit that's will get us out of this problem. >> the key there is it's my best belief that they've reached an agreement on revenues, that means on this issue of raising taxes on the wealthiest americans. this is still a fight over tax rates for wealthy americans at this point. not sure what else is on the table. doctors, see a 27% cut on the pay they get for medicare services, that's a problem. amt. there's a whole host...